As already stated in another post, just wanted to ensure you all that we are, and I personally am, hearing all your comments...
First of all please bear in mind it's our 1st rally and we know there is room for improvement.
Hopefully you'll agree Day 2 was already a bit better, with less onboards facing drivers...
We've again twitched a few things for Day 3, added footage from the Solbergs, Raikkonen and Wilson, and will be wrapping up with footage from the TOP 10.
As for the onboards it's a deliberate choice to show as much as we can, and I guess most would agree that the full Sargen stage with Gronholm with a great piece !
Also S-WRC & P-WRC are not featured just because they'll be in a full 26' summary in a fortnight...
Keep watching, keep sending comments, and we'll make sure the coverage gets better and better!
 |
FORUMWRC
Sun 14/02/10 - 18:13
#1
Offline
Clubman
Day 2 was certainly better. Hopefully you can show some live stages during the season, the last stage was live i sweden earlier today apparently.
Sun 14/02/10 - 18:51
#2
Karting
It's not sooo difficult. Just watch the coverage of IRC on Eurosport and you know what we want.
- On Board in the front half of the car that you can actually see out of the front window.
- Outside footage and also from Helicopter
- As many different cars as possible. Not only the first 3.
- Less interviews. Put them in the summary in the week after the race. It's simply no time for so many interviews in only 45 minutes.
- On Board in the front half of the car that you can actually see out of the front window.
- Outside footage and also from Helicopter
- As many different cars as possible. Not only the first 3.
- Less interviews. Put them in the summary in the week after the race. It's simply no time for so many interviews in only 45 minutes.
Mon 15/02/10 - 00:59
#3
Rookie
We need...
1. More cameras on the outside in stages.
2. Less onboards.
3. More cameras on the outside in stages.
4. Less onboards.
5. Less coverage of the top 5
I hope that someone in Motors TV hear these (mine and from the others) suggestions in order to make 180º changes in the coverage.
1. More cameras on the outside in stages.
2. Less onboards.
3. More cameras on the outside in stages.
4. Less onboards.
5. Less coverage of the top 5
I hope that someone in Motors TV hear these (mine and from the others) suggestions in order to make 180º changes in the coverage.
Mon 15/02/10 - 04:18
#4
Rookie
Pretty good coverage but less onboards. what makes wrc cool is seeing car on the edge. i think you need 70% outside shoot and 30% on board. Pretty good for your first show.
Mon 15/02/10 - 05:59
#5
Rookie
Ok only got to watch the coverage on youtube and I have only seen day 1 and 2...day 2 was better seemed calmer and more of story was told. My initial reaction was that this is really good however there were some areas for improvement...It's hard to please everybody.
What have you got to work with, some of the best scenery on the planet, great dedicated fans, colour, excitement and organisation of the service park, vibrancy of a truly international roadshow, human ingenuity, communication and team work put to the test, spectacular driving in variable conditions.
Some things that could be useful,a little more time spent on introduction and interviews with more people around the paddock, SWRc, Pwrc, Jwrc...if available, a good introduction to a story goes a long way.
More balance, with incar, helicopter and stage side camera views and a greater number of cars covered, which has been a fairly common complaint. (who and how is this paid for?) try and get Incar camera's mounted fwd of the cross bracing...so we can see the steering wheel. Remembering we do get incar video available on youtube, so what you show only needs to be sufficient to tell the story and perhaps give either verbal or graphic reminder that onboards will be available online. OK some feature special interest full stage such as Gronholm on Sargen is pretty cool.
I guess the main thing is covering more of the field with some more external shots.
I like the CRC coverage, the structure is good, they tell a good story and there is a good balance of incar verses external and competitor commentary. *Note the positioning of the incar cameras.
http://flatovercrest.com/2009/06/crc-tv-2009-rallye-perce-neige-maniwaki/
Ok I know this is not same day highlights package so they probably don't have the same time constraints. I think you are doing a good job and for the most part I liked it, just to cover more of the field and longer external shots would be good.
Then there's the reverse cockpit shots, sponsors need to get value so, perhaps using inserts so we see both views, maybe decals on dash and or ticker tape graphic with sponsor and other info?, graphics with driver/co driver names and country flag to stir up some patriotism displayed for longer during extended incar shots...I guess what you can do is dependent on time and budget constraints.
General comment: use the crowds, the atmosphere at Colin's crest while the cars were jumping and their reactions would be pretty awesome and this probably attracts people on primal level.
Best of luck...
What have you got to work with, some of the best scenery on the planet, great dedicated fans, colour, excitement and organisation of the service park, vibrancy of a truly international roadshow, human ingenuity, communication and team work put to the test, spectacular driving in variable conditions.
Some things that could be useful,a little more time spent on introduction and interviews with more people around the paddock, SWRc, Pwrc, Jwrc...if available, a good introduction to a story goes a long way.
More balance, with incar, helicopter and stage side camera views and a greater number of cars covered, which has been a fairly common complaint. (who and how is this paid for?) try and get Incar camera's mounted fwd of the cross bracing...so we can see the steering wheel. Remembering we do get incar video available on youtube, so what you show only needs to be sufficient to tell the story and perhaps give either verbal or graphic reminder that onboards will be available online. OK some feature special interest full stage such as Gronholm on Sargen is pretty cool.
I guess the main thing is covering more of the field with some more external shots.
I like the CRC coverage, the structure is good, they tell a good story and there is a good balance of incar verses external and competitor commentary. *Note the positioning of the incar cameras.
http://flatovercrest.com/2009/06/crc-tv-2009-rallye-perce-neige-maniwaki/
Ok I know this is not same day highlights package so they probably don't have the same time constraints. I think you are doing a good job and for the most part I liked it, just to cover more of the field and longer external shots would be good.
Then there's the reverse cockpit shots, sponsors need to get value so, perhaps using inserts so we see both views, maybe decals on dash and or ticker tape graphic with sponsor and other info?, graphics with driver/co driver names and country flag to stir up some patriotism displayed for longer during extended incar shots...I guess what you can do is dependent on time and budget constraints.
General comment: use the crowds, the atmosphere at Colin's crest while the cars were jumping and their reactions would be pretty awesome and this probably attracts people on primal level.
Best of luck...
Mon 15/02/10 - 07:15
#6
Rookie
Just thinking a little more about introduction, after watching, and I think like many other people, I was left wondering where the rest of it is, i.e. Pwrc Swrc and Jwrc and even where's the rest of wrc, even though there was some great footage... I think the intro was lacking, ie if we are told what we are in for, how it will be delivered and that other things missing will be included in other coverage, then you have set peoples expectations, that way if you give people more they will be happier...as it was I thought I was just watching end of day highlights and would get to see some of the swrc and pwrc action...so you can't help but feel let down. Anyway just a thought and I really have only watched day and 2 on Youtube and don't know what else has been shown in conjuction.
Mon 15/02/10 - 12:47
#7
Rookie
I only saw day 1 and 2 and missed an enthousiastic commentator. That was much better on Eurosport, didn't they use the feed commentator? Because I never heard that guy do anything else on Eurosport.
Maybe get 2 commentators to work together.
Otherwise it was good coverage, maybe picture quality could be a bit better (colors didn't look natural)
Maybe get 2 commentators to work together.
Otherwise it was good coverage, maybe picture quality could be a bit better (colors didn't look natural)
Mon 15/02/10 - 13:02
#8
Rookie
WRC
Hi just had to let you know i think that this was the best WRC coverage i have ever seen . Keep it up.Just need to advertise the show more.
Hi just had to let you know i think that this was the best WRC coverage i have ever seen . Keep it up.Just need to advertise the show more.
Tue 16/02/10 - 09:57
#9
Rookie
fviger wrote:
Glad to hear that.
fviger wrote:
Agreed and Day 3 was better still.... but it's shades of gray. There's still massive improvement needed.
fviger wrote:
That was indeed a nice touch....but the graphics preceeding the clips/comments didn't tell you much. Like the rest of the three days it was haphazardly presented. In your wrap up of the top ten you show graphic with a pic of the driver but no visual indication as to where he finished, how many stages he won, etc...and Simon doesn't really do much to clarify matters.
fviger wrote:
Hmmm from all the comments I've read here and in various other forums opinion seems to be 90% negative. Consensus says it was a bad choice. Count me in the camp that thinks more of a balance between stage-side/in-car/heli-cam would be better. If it were all in HD quality and the cameras mounted in optimal spots an onboard heavy approach might work...but given the limitations of the current footage North One is furnishing you with? It's not working. .
fviger wrote:
Agreed... but I'd happily have traded that segment for some more wide shots of cars on opposite lock, taking Colin's Crest, etc... plus a little clarity to the program overall.
fviger wrote:
That's wonderful....but none the less I suspect a little 2 min segment with a couple of highlight clips and a leaderboard for each class each day would be much appreciated by all. Just try avoiding spoilers on the web for a fortnight;-)
fviger wrote:
Will do, and I hope so.
Now to my complaints/suggestions.... I've been watching whatever rally coverage I could find since around '92. I've seen a lot of different TV packages from different countries, promoters and networks over the years. Yours is BY FAR the most confusing I've ever seen, bar none.
Simon's the least of the many problems. As others have pointed out I agree he could do a much better job. He seems a likeable enough guy and it's his first rally so I'm willing to cut him some slack. Can't be easy to commentate on the mess of footage you're offering up with the time constraints inheirent to producing same day coverage. Christ knows I couldn't do it nor could 99.9% of the people slagging him off.
This leads me to major problem number one. The audio levels are all over the place so even if Simon were providing perfect commentary we'd probably miss it anyway. And music on top of interviews? Really? Hard enough to hear the low audio in the interviews, but layer music on top and it's nigh on impossible. Either your exsisting audio engineers need to wake up and do their job or you need to find new ones.
The biggest failing in your coverage is any sense of cohesion to the story that is The Rally. You're telling a story here. You need to tell it clearly and consistently through words, video and graphics/info - otherwise you lose the viewer. The addition of Kimi and Ken Block this season should see an increase in casual viewers. You need to make the rally as exciting, clear, and informative for these new viewers as possible if you want to positively contribute to the growth of the WRC brand, and in turn your viewership.
The version of North One's TV package Eurosport used to show (and that other networks still do) does a far better job of this - though it's far from the perfection others would have you believe. This story telling aspect was actually done much better in the past...
If memory serves, at one point Speed TV in the US were doing one hour same day coverage...much like you are now. The US produced portion of the presentation was pretty crap....but the overall package was much better. There was continuity to how each stage was presented and there were more graphics to update you on the finishing order of individual stages in addition to the overall order. This is where your coverage is really lacking for me... you need to be much clearer as to what stage you're currently covering and when you've moved on to the next one (or skip one altogether.) Would it be so hard to show a quick graphic with top times on each stage and then the overall leaderboard before moving on to the next one? This way even if we lose track of Simon's meandering comments (likely) we've some clue as to just what the Hell is going on;-) More 'virtual spectator' would be appreciated as well.
Following on....please, please don't skip stages. I didn't take notes or anything, but you definitely left entire stages out completely. You've an hour (or 47-ish minutes after breaks) to play with here you can include at least an update on stage times for each stage. Just because the rally's pretty much decided a few stages before the end doesn't mean the viewer appreciates you completely skipping those stages and jumping to the final stage and rally highlights.
Of course I could go to WRC.com for stage times etc..... but I really don't want to know who won before I finish watching the coverage. I really shouldn't be so confused after watching WRC TV coverage that I need to go to WRC.com for timing information so I can piece together what I've just watched.
I'm well aware that you're limited by what's included in the package you've contracted to receive from North One-ISC-WRC. However if it's limited to the mostly low quality in-car cams and the smattering of external shots we've seen in this first rally perhaps a renegotiation is in order?
Good luck to you...
As already stated in another post, just wanted to ensure you all that we are, and I personally am, hearing all your comments...
Glad to hear that.
fviger wrote:
Hopefully you'll agree Day 2 was already a bit better, with less onboards facing drivers...
Agreed and Day 3 was better still.... but it's shades of gray. There's still massive improvement needed.
fviger wrote:
We've again twitched a few things for Day 3, added footage from the Solbergs, Raikkonen and Wilson, and will be wrapping up with footage from the TOP 10.
That was indeed a nice touch....but the graphics preceeding the clips/comments didn't tell you much. Like the rest of the three days it was haphazardly presented. In your wrap up of the top ten you show graphic with a pic of the driver but no visual indication as to where he finished, how many stages he won, etc...and Simon doesn't really do much to clarify matters.
fviger wrote:
As for the onboards it's a deliberate choice to show as much as we can
Hmmm from all the comments I've read here and in various other forums opinion seems to be 90% negative. Consensus says it was a bad choice. Count me in the camp that thinks more of a balance between stage-side/in-car/heli-cam would be better. If it were all in HD quality and the cameras mounted in optimal spots an onboard heavy approach might work...but given the limitations of the current footage North One is furnishing you with? It's not working. .
fviger wrote:
...and I guess most would agree that the full Sargen stage with Gronholm with a great piece !
Agreed... but I'd happily have traded that segment for some more wide shots of cars on opposite lock, taking Colin's Crest, etc... plus a little clarity to the program overall.
fviger wrote:
Also S-WRC & P-WRC are not featured just because they'll be in a full 26' summary in a fortnight...
That's wonderful....but none the less I suspect a little 2 min segment with a couple of highlight clips and a leaderboard for each class each day would be much appreciated by all. Just try avoiding spoilers on the web for a fortnight;-)
fviger wrote:
Keep watching, keep sending comments, and we'll make sure the coverage gets better and better!
Will do, and I hope so.
Now to my complaints/suggestions.... I've been watching whatever rally coverage I could find since around '92. I've seen a lot of different TV packages from different countries, promoters and networks over the years. Yours is BY FAR the most confusing I've ever seen, bar none.
Simon's the least of the many problems. As others have pointed out I agree he could do a much better job. He seems a likeable enough guy and it's his first rally so I'm willing to cut him some slack. Can't be easy to commentate on the mess of footage you're offering up with the time constraints inheirent to producing same day coverage. Christ knows I couldn't do it nor could 99.9% of the people slagging him off.
This leads me to major problem number one. The audio levels are all over the place so even if Simon were providing perfect commentary we'd probably miss it anyway. And music on top of interviews? Really? Hard enough to hear the low audio in the interviews, but layer music on top and it's nigh on impossible. Either your exsisting audio engineers need to wake up and do their job or you need to find new ones.
The biggest failing in your coverage is any sense of cohesion to the story that is The Rally. You're telling a story here. You need to tell it clearly and consistently through words, video and graphics/info - otherwise you lose the viewer. The addition of Kimi and Ken Block this season should see an increase in casual viewers. You need to make the rally as exciting, clear, and informative for these new viewers as possible if you want to positively contribute to the growth of the WRC brand, and in turn your viewership.
The version of North One's TV package Eurosport used to show (and that other networks still do) does a far better job of this - though it's far from the perfection others would have you believe. This story telling aspect was actually done much better in the past...
If memory serves, at one point Speed TV in the US were doing one hour same day coverage...much like you are now. The US produced portion of the presentation was pretty crap....but the overall package was much better. There was continuity to how each stage was presented and there were more graphics to update you on the finishing order of individual stages in addition to the overall order. This is where your coverage is really lacking for me... you need to be much clearer as to what stage you're currently covering and when you've moved on to the next one (or skip one altogether.) Would it be so hard to show a quick graphic with top times on each stage and then the overall leaderboard before moving on to the next one? This way even if we lose track of Simon's meandering comments (likely) we've some clue as to just what the Hell is going on;-) More 'virtual spectator' would be appreciated as well.
Following on....please, please don't skip stages. I didn't take notes or anything, but you definitely left entire stages out completely. You've an hour (or 47-ish minutes after breaks) to play with here you can include at least an update on stage times for each stage. Just because the rally's pretty much decided a few stages before the end doesn't mean the viewer appreciates you completely skipping those stages and jumping to the final stage and rally highlights.
Of course I could go to WRC.com for stage times etc..... but I really don't want to know who won before I finish watching the coverage. I really shouldn't be so confused after watching WRC TV coverage that I need to go to WRC.com for timing information so I can piece together what I've just watched.
I'm well aware that you're limited by what's included in the package you've contracted to receive from North One-ISC-WRC. However if it's limited to the mostly low quality in-car cams and the smattering of external shots we've seen in this first rally perhaps a renegotiation is in order?
Good luck to you...
Tue 16/02/10 - 15:29
#10
Rookie
I just watched day three and yes it was much better, time spent setting the scene, getting into the atmosphere of the event and then it appeared to follow some chronological order...not sure if it really did but it appeared that way which is a good start.
I'll reflect much of OldSchoolWRCFan comments, and will just add that for casual first time viewers, looking at two helmets bobbing up and down for two to five minutes with a very narrow letterbox view of the outside scenery will probably see them flipping channels pretty quickly. Not sure what rules are but get WRCTV to get cams mounted elsewhere, particularily in the Citroen's, under brakes pretty much all you can see is the ground in front of the car.. wide angle external on roof is always good if you can't get a better position in the car..Anywhere but where they are now.
I'll reflect much of OldSchoolWRCFan comments, and will just add that for casual first time viewers, looking at two helmets bobbing up and down for two to five minutes with a very narrow letterbox view of the outside scenery will probably see them flipping channels pretty quickly. Not sure what rules are but get WRCTV to get cams mounted elsewhere, particularily in the Citroen's, under brakes pretty much all you can see is the ground in front of the car.. wide angle external on roof is always good if you can't get a better position in the car..Anywhere but where they are now.
Tue 16/02/10 - 23:11
#11
Rookie
Hello OldSchoolWRCFan
Good comment, if everything you say be respected, we would have good coverage.
Totally agree.
Greetings from Portugal.
Wed 17/02/10 - 21:49
#12
Rookie
Like many others i was disapointed by the WRC coverage. I was unable to make it to Sweden this year and so i kept myself updated with what was going on from home. It was great on WRC.com listening to the rally radio and hearing Colin Clark and Bec williams getting over excited about most of the action and goings on and i was really looking forward to being able to watch it on Motors TV.
The WRC is a fast paced action filled race with some of the worlds best drivers on the worlds toughest terrains but your coverage almost seemed like it lost that aspect of it.
I understand that it can be hard to show the sort of excitment in a daliy review that you would get from if it was live. Which is why i think the show has to be more 'fast paced'. The cameras were on just one driver in the stage for long periods of time and its starts to feel like its just a fast drive down a road. I think you could improve this aspect and put across to the viewers that it is a race by flicking back to each of the drivers throughout the stage and don't just stick with one driver, show us some splits or stage times on the run through to compare which drivers are fastest, do this by using external camera's, Helicam and a small bit of onboard. You need to show and put across to the viewers that its race.
The other main improvement is the commentary and presentation. The person doing it needs to be more excitable and informative, they need to be more into the action, the more over excited they get the more intrested and entertained the views will be. Take the example of Colin Clark from Rally Radio or Carlton Kirby from eurosport, they are so passionate about the sport and drivers that they can some times get carried away which makes for great TV and coverage.
It would also be great if you maybe tryed new things or go back to the old way such as having presenters, having more than one presenter or commentator, give them someone to work off and bounce back of each other. like in F1 on bbc they have three presenters, two of which have a lot of experience in the sport. Have them sitting in the service park at beginning and end of the show analising what has happen throughout the day.
Maybe try some sort of 'Grid walk' around the service park, run around shows the in's and out's of service and the teams, this could make great 'car crash' TV. Give more info and Background on teams and drivers explain the stages a bit more, even if its just the basic's so that the 'Regular viewer' understands whats going.
After all the WRC is a fans sport. I look forward to watching the next show from Mexico and hope the improvements that are made help.
The WRC is a fast paced action filled race with some of the worlds best drivers on the worlds toughest terrains but your coverage almost seemed like it lost that aspect of it.
I understand that it can be hard to show the sort of excitment in a daliy review that you would get from if it was live. Which is why i think the show has to be more 'fast paced'. The cameras were on just one driver in the stage for long periods of time and its starts to feel like its just a fast drive down a road. I think you could improve this aspect and put across to the viewers that it is a race by flicking back to each of the drivers throughout the stage and don't just stick with one driver, show us some splits or stage times on the run through to compare which drivers are fastest, do this by using external camera's, Helicam and a small bit of onboard. You need to show and put across to the viewers that its race.
The other main improvement is the commentary and presentation. The person doing it needs to be more excitable and informative, they need to be more into the action, the more over excited they get the more intrested and entertained the views will be. Take the example of Colin Clark from Rally Radio or Carlton Kirby from eurosport, they are so passionate about the sport and drivers that they can some times get carried away which makes for great TV and coverage.
It would also be great if you maybe tryed new things or go back to the old way such as having presenters, having more than one presenter or commentator, give them someone to work off and bounce back of each other. like in F1 on bbc they have three presenters, two of which have a lot of experience in the sport. Have them sitting in the service park at beginning and end of the show analising what has happen throughout the day.
Maybe try some sort of 'Grid walk' around the service park, run around shows the in's and out's of service and the teams, this could make great 'car crash' TV. Give more info and Background on teams and drivers explain the stages a bit more, even if its just the basic's so that the 'Regular viewer' understands whats going.
After all the WRC is a fans sport. I look forward to watching the next show from Mexico and hope the improvements that are made help.
Thu 18/02/10 - 01:05
#13
Rookie
RallyDan...there is passionate and there is uninformed shouting and unfortunately Colin has a tendency to fall into the latter. The self professed 'voice of rallying' is more like the 'shout of rallying'. Its one of the reasons many that I know dont like tuning in to World Rally Radio, Becs Williams is very good and very professional and knows her onions when it comes to the WRC unfortunately when Colin goes on one of his shouting missions (read excitement) it just sounds god awful and it really lets down the show.
Carlton Kirby is very good and yes it is a very fine line between sounding excited and delivering a professional performance and Carlton is a good model for delivering that, but more importantly if you are going to have commentators, they HAVE to understand the sport inside out and back to front, they have to mix exciteable babble with informed information about the cars, the conditions, the roles within teams, tactical choices regarding tires, etc, etc.
This is something that Motors TV can learn from, there are some good examples, some superbly professional examples and some not so good. A classic example is a lead anchor like Clare Balding for the BBC on their Olympics coverage. She has Graham Bell who has competed in the sport and has the knowledge and excitement level that is just about perfect as a colour co-host/reporter and she and him make the perfect combination, mainly because he knows what he is talking about.
So... more professional informed and knowledgeable commentators, good rapport, and no more shouting Scots! As a wise man once said "You can teach a monkey to bash the drums... but you will rarely get a decent tune..."
Carlton Kirby is very good and yes it is a very fine line between sounding excited and delivering a professional performance and Carlton is a good model for delivering that, but more importantly if you are going to have commentators, they HAVE to understand the sport inside out and back to front, they have to mix exciteable babble with informed information about the cars, the conditions, the roles within teams, tactical choices regarding tires, etc, etc.
This is something that Motors TV can learn from, there are some good examples, some superbly professional examples and some not so good. A classic example is a lead anchor like Clare Balding for the BBC on their Olympics coverage. She has Graham Bell who has competed in the sport and has the knowledge and excitement level that is just about perfect as a colour co-host/reporter and she and him make the perfect combination, mainly because he knows what he is talking about.
So... more professional informed and knowledgeable commentators, good rapport, and no more shouting Scots! As a wise man once said "You can teach a monkey to bash the drums... but you will rarely get a decent tune..."
Sun 01/08/10 - 16:58
#14
Rookie
I'm sorry to say, but I don't see any major improvement in the quality of Motors TV coverage. It's still awful and even though I'm a die hard fan I suggest shortening your broadcast to 30 minutes. I don't need minutes and minutes of Loeb onboard ('sit back and enjoy'), whereas other drivers and stages are 100% skipped. There's already plenty of suggestion on this and other threads and if you still didn't get the point, why don't you just give up and leave it to someone else (al least for next season I hope).
Wed 01/09/10 - 03:21
#15
Rookie
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